I need a 2nd. opinion-Steiff & Hermann bear

[olivertwist]

Upon trying to duplicate a childhood bear I received from a close and dear Grandfather (approx. 14-15" light colored mohair bear, w/growler, fully jointed, open mouth, perhaps a Steiff or Hermann, from the early 50's) I did some homework and proceeded to buy a bear that appeared to be what I was after in my price range (I found they ranged anywhere from approx. $80. to $500. and more!) It was described as an old Steiff or Hermann Zotty bear from the 50-60's and the pics showed & described a defect on his bottom mouth, could be a moth hole, but that's irregardless actually.

I just received the bear from Germany and found it had some oddities that were very different than what I expected. To begin with the head is stuffed with an extremely hard material, honestly, it has almost no give at all, and certainly not cuddely in the least, the ears are somewhat unprofessionally sewn on in an uneven and lob-sided manner, the stuffing in the main trunk did feel similar to the straw type stuffing mine had, and I could feel a large somewhat oval shaped plastic piece in it's belly that is supposed to be it's non-working growler.

The mohair is extremely thick to the point that I can't make out a lighter colored chest area like mine had, and if real it was certainly never used much at all because the paw and feet pads are extremely neat, clean, and newer looking even to the point where there is little hair that protrudes from the pad seams. (I actually e-mailed the seller to inquire if the pads had been replaced they appeared so unused - and was told he was all original that nothing had been replaced). The head is not exactly evenly rounded on both sides and the ears seem a little too small. And lastly, the head, body, and arms all seemed to be stuffed with different materials, which I think they could have been back then, just not like this one. I have asked for a refund, which I don't believe I will have a problem with, I'll know within the next few days, but my real question is, are these the typical traits of the bear I am trying to duplicate, so I don't make these mistakes again. I have my doubts that neither Steiff nor Hermann ever made a bear of this quality.

It would not make sense that the seller would try to mis-lead anyone and go to the trouble of installing a non-working growler, and have a hole in it's bottom mouth, if it was trying to make a sell. Is it possible that the bear could have been pieced togehter for re-sale, or possible that Germany made their's this way? Surely they had different materials and workmanship than the USA or what was manuf. for the USA? I just found it a little hard to believe that a well-liked and popular bear like the Steiff or the Hermann Zotty's of that time period were likely made this way.

I would think there would be at least a few other manufacturers other than just the Steiff or Hermann bears that were made back then at a likely lesser cost perhaps (my Grandfather was a fisherman, not likely to have much extra in the $ area). Please respond if you can direct me so that my continued pursuit might be more successful next time. Any information would be appreciated. At this point, I may only be comfortable seeing the bear in person before making another wrong purchase. Thanks so much, LjH

[TushTeds]

hi there - first of all - welcome to the forum!

although your description is very accurate and detailed, it's always hard - even for bear specialists - to give an opinion based on a description alone... what would really be helpful is a photo (or several!) of the bear.

it's true that there were many (unknown) teddy manufacturers in germany and austria who tried to copy the most popular bears of that time. the steiff & hermann zottys are relatively easy to distinguish from one another - and if we had a photo of your bear it should be possible to tell whether he is in fact a steiff or a hermann bear.

you however, seem rather unhappy with your bear - and that fact alone would be enough reason (for me) to return the bear and ask for a refund. :Winking:

here is a pic of 8 different "zotty type" bears.. the top 4 are austrian, the first 2 in the bottom row are hermann zottys, and the last 2 are unknown, although also probably german/austrian.

they were all made between 1950 and 1965, all have mohair, open mouths and felt on their paws... even bears from the same manufacturer often look completely different, as you can see here:

[elize]

:welcome: to the forum.

I totally agree with TushTeds that you must be happy with your bear.

The first picture is a 1950's Steiff Zotty with his unique peach-colored bib.

In the second picture are 6 Steiff Zotties from 1951 with their long thick mohair plush.

In the last picture we have 3 different age group Teddy-Babies. It can be seen how the head and snout changed between 1930 (top) and 1950 (middle) and end of fifties (bottom)
The Teddy-babies have flat feet.

[olivertwist]

Thank you so much for your responses. I will post a picture asap. The one I am trying to find does seem to match the Steiff Zotty more than any others. But one important aspect of the bear I did recieve that was very noticable to me, is the you can feel the large hard plastic parts used in the rotating arms, legs, and head. In my original bear, you did not notice anything as hard or large as that at all. And again on top of that the head is almost baseball hard which makes the entire bear very un-cuddly, instead of just the opposite. Thanks again for the help, I sincerely appreciate it! LjH

[elize]

The one I am trying to find does seem to match the Steiff Zotty more than any others. But one important aspect of the bear I did recieve that was very noticable to me, is the you can feel the large hard plastic parts used in the rotating arms, legs, and head. In my original bear, you did not notice anything as hard or large as that at all. And again on top of that the head is almost baseball hard which makes the entire bear very un-cuddly, instead of just the opposite. Thanks again for the help, I sincerely appreciate it! LjH

oliverstwist, the workmanship of most German bears like Steiff and Hermann is normally very good and it is odd that you can feel the discs in the arms, legs and head :puzzled:

The paws of Zotty bears (Steiff & Hermann are all turned downward - to face the ground and not to the inside of the body of the teddy)

What I have seen in my old bear (I got in the 60's) is that the stuffing in the head - woodwool/wood-shavings compacts and goes softer. I had the bear restored and the head was stuffed again and is so hard now (which I do not like at all).

Glad we can help."happy6: